President of Nigerian Political Science Association, Prof Hassan Saliu, talks to DANIEL AYANTOYE about the coup d’etat in the Republic of Niger, the intervention of the Economic Community of West African States, and its implication on Nigeria
The takeover of a democratically elected government in Niger by the military came with so much concern. Do you think the West African sub-region is not ready for democracy?
Democracy is a value that can be operated in any society. However, we must recognise the difference between culture and democracy. I will not say West Africa is not ready for democracy. I would rather say that the value attached to democracy by leaders, which shows that they are only after their welfare and not the welfare of the people, is endangering the welfare of democracy in West Africa. The people see democracy as a system that can liberate them from poverty and the state of want. In West Africa, leaders have made democracy to be about their comfort and this has made them continually work hard for people to vote for them during elections.
What do you think would have warranted such a coup in Niger, especially at a time many thought military coups were no longer fashionable?
Why do you think there would be a coup in that country if the people found value in democracy in their country? If the leaders can change their notion about democracy, you will not see such happen. The people see democracy in one way while the politicians see it in another way. The people see democracy as a system of government aimed at changing that bad situation into good while the politicians see democracy as a means to further oppress the people and that is the result of what we are seeing.
Are you saying what has happened in Niger Republic is a result of the mismanagement of the people’s welfare?
Human beings can endure hardship, but those who are causing the hardship need to be put on notice and it is just a matter of time. When people are pushed to the wall, you can predict what they can do. So, the best thing is for the leader to always be aware of the mood of the people so that they don’t lose their loyalty completely. Nobody prefers not to be patriotic but it gets to a level where hardship will eliminate all the restraints, and once this happens, what you should expect is what we are getting now.
From what we have seen, it appears that the coup plotters enjoy support from a large number of the people of Niger. What do you think could make the citizens prefer a military takeover in a democratic system?
People do not want a democracy that is good for nothing; people don’t want it. Although we, political scientists, say democracy is the best form of government ever known to man, when democracy cannot meet the basic expectation of the people, then the question is: what is the value? The answer they get is what has produced the situation in Niger, Burkina Faso, Guinea, and Mali. Once democracy is useless to the people, they will not go out of their way to defend it. Again democracy should be seen in equilateral value. If you know something is beneficial to you, you will defend it.
Surprisingly, some Nigeriens attacked the French Embassy after the coup and demanded that the French should leave their country. What do you think would have warranted such an action?
The world is changing and the new leaders don’t want the kind of control that France is used to. So, they are revolting. What was the role of France in installing the ousted government? I don’t think France fully supported their democratic order. The role of France in her former colony is not so clear, especially given what is known about France that she is always out to dictate to her former colony and keep the colony’s currency in France currency and many things they do underground to manipulate their former colony. So, if you are seeing people revolting against France, I think it should not surprise you based on their colonial experiences.
Do you think France was taking advantage of the country?
France didn’t want to release its colonies for independence, they are more serious about ripping off Africa. So, they went all out of their way to tie the leg, eye, and hand of their former colony. When a man is kept under slavery for too long, if he eventually gets independence, he will go wild. They (Niger) are beginning to see the danger that France constitutes to their country. There is an increasing level of awareness or resentment against France in some of her former colonies. What Guinea did during the independence struggle is what other countries are trying to do now because they may have seen that not much good can come from France.
But now they are calling for an alliance with Russia. What makes it different from France?
No conclusion can be drawn for now, but one thing we must not fail to understand is that the world itself is not static. There was a time some countries were powerful in the world and there was another time others took over from them. There will be a time that another country will also take over. At one point or the other, you see countries begin to look for allies. You recall that during the Cold War, some African countries went to China because China was not insisting on political correctness, it was not insisting on democracy. It was interested in the economic value, so (Vladimir) Putin doesn’t mind and Russia is looking for more friends, therefore, African countries who have problems with the West will always turn to Russia. Remember during the Civil War, we had problems with the West and Nigeria also turned to the former Soviet Union. So, history is repeating itself. Once the condition they are being given is harsh, they look for any other country that is available to give them a more comfortable situation.
Shouldn’t there be a concern with Russia being an ally to a neighbouring state to Nigeria?
As I said, Russia is looking for more friends, and whatever certainty is available to them, they will welcome it. And since Russia is the bad boy of international policy now, she too will go all out to have many allies.
After the coup, the ousted President, Mohamed Bazoum, was detained by his guard, although he recently met Chad’s leader, Mahamat Itno, in Niamey. Don’t you think there should be concern about Bazoum’s safety and the need for a speedy intervention?
His arrest and detention are following an already set pattern, and this is to allow for negotiation. So it’s normal. About his safety, well I can’t sit here and make informed suggestions about what will happen. But what we know is that when there is such a government in place, the head of the previous government has to be kept away somewhere to allow the new government to stabilise. I see a situation where they will eventually release him especially when other African countries have toned down their concern and accepted the reality that these people have taken over and then negotiate their exit instead of threatening with an invasion. And that is why they are already seeking an alliance with other countries where the military is ruling. You don’t push them too far. As one of them said recently, you have to look at the condition that propelled the military coup. A coup does not just happen. Why are political leaders creating the atmosphere for coups to take place?
Are you saying that ECOWAS shouldn’t have threatened military action against the coup plotters?
How many of the ECOWAS countries are in disposition to launch a military attack? How many of them are in a position to defend themselves? They count on Nigeria, and this country has domestic challenges that it’s facing. Our government is new. We have the problem of the removal of subsidy, so Nigeria is not just available for the kind of roles she played in Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea Bissau in the past. So, it is not advisable for anyone to insist that (President Bola) Tinubu’s government should go to Niger to apply force. If there is going to be any decisive action, France should be encouraged to do it, not Nigeria. We have protests here and there in Nigeria. How can one now tell the President who has not yet been able to manage the issues to go to Niger to install a democratically elected President. If Nigeria’s President has strength, let him use it on Nigeria’s domestic issues – Boko Haram, bandits, and others. He should allow superpowers to go and solve the problems in Niger and others. In any case, they (superpowers) caused it. France and America all know what they are losing in terms of resources they are taking away from Niger. It’s unfortunate that Africa is now a place where they (superpowers) scrabble for resources.
ECOWAS also directed the closure of Nigerien borders with other West African countries as well as other sanctions. What do you make of that?
I see that as a threat. It is not everything that is said that is actually carried out. It is just to put pressure on the military coup plotters in Niger, and it is part of the strategies. But the question is: is the threat credible? We threatened to go to Sierra Leone and we were there so that was credible, but given the current circumstance, I don’t know if the threat is credible or not.
What should ECOWAS do if the military junta fails to return power?
There is nothing more they can do, as far as I am concerned, than to put it on the table to discuss. What have they done in Mali, Burkina Faso and others? The issue will be with us for some time because ultimately, these countries making threats will suddenly realise they don’t have the capacity. Therefore, it will be a topic of discussion at every ECOWAS meeting for some time.
Nigeria should mind its own business, we have too many challenges. I am a student of foreign policy. I am not saying we should completely stay away; we can get involved in the Niger Republic without necessarily sending soldiers or raising sanctions because what is the essence of a sanction knowing that no one will comply with it.
There have been several coups in Africa. What can African leaders do to halt this?
I think African leaders just need to look inward to tell themselves the truth, that they are not governing Africa well and this is the fact. They have to address the cause of the coups we have witnessed which are the result of their governance style. They have to adjudge this style and accord more recognition to the citizens. Until the people are well governed, this phenomenon of coup plotting may not disappear and we may see more coups; I pray we don’t. I don’t support it and I don’t want it. Democratically elected African leaders have to sit up to prevent coups.
What are the consequences of military takeovers in Africa?
Military rule is a setback to any democratic journey, mismanagement continues and the military has not been known to be a good manager of diversity. Some of the problems we are battling now started under military rule or even before their intervention and people had expected the military to resolve it but unfortunately, they (the military) magnified it and that is where we are now. So those calling for a takeover by the military are just ignorant because the consequences are not palatable. They (the military) deceive people initially but after settling down, they do worse things than civilians. No reasonable person will call for a military takeover, but our leaders are creating an atmosphere for a military takeover. So, they should watch themselves.
Nigeria shares borders with Niger. What can be done to avert a coup?
The new government should appreciate the gravity of the problems we have on the ground in Nigeria, then move more quickly in resolving the problem. It should ensure that good governance is the guiding principle. Nigeria has not enjoyed good governance for too long. The new government should realise that Nigerians are yearning for good governance. President Tinubu should be an effective leader. He should be in control of his government, monitoring what all the ministers and others working for the government are doing. It is essential. As it stands, Nigeria is not in a state of crisis but an emergency. Good policies must be initiated and implemented to resolve some of the problems and the corruption level must be reduced. Citizens should be patient with the government and allow it to put all the structures in place, but the government should be aware that Nigerians do not have the kind of patience they showed the previous government.
Nigeria elected Tinubu first to serve them. ECOWAS is more of a ceremonial arrangement. When he wants to run for a second term, Nigeria will determine his fate, not ECOWAS. Therefore, he should prioritise how to govern Nigeria well. I am not saying he should not perform his role in the ECOWAS, but he should not kill Nigeria because of that.
The President has appointed ministerial nominees who have undergone screening by the Senate. What are your observations about the appointment and screening of the nominees?
For me, the President has acted wisely. Whenever you win an election and want to set up a cabinet, it will be a mixed bag comprising technocrats and politicians who worked for your victory. In terms of practical politics, the cabinet is good but my rating will be given after the ministers complete their term in office. On the screening, my reservation is that their performance at the screening may not necessarily determine their output in the office. Some may not perform. The emphasis is not on being a good talker but a good performer and you cannot assess good performance until people have assumed office.
Some Nigerians think the President should have assigned portfolios to the ministers before they were screened. What do you think about this?
Nigerians should be very careful and realise that there are certain privileges that a Nigerian President enjoys. It is his prerogative. What if he assigned a portfolio and after the clearance, he changes the portfolio, are you going to go to court?
What about the take-a-bow treatment some of the ministers received doing the screening?
Is there any constitutional provision on how the screening should be done? I think the senators are allowed to use their discretion and if in their procedure, taking a bow is what they feel is right, then there is nothing we can do than lobby them.
